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king5clubs	string?	Lead	[-]
Member Posts: 24 (05/03/08 11:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	playing 2-5 NL i bet $65 on the flop and the player behind me bring out a stack, cuts out $60 in checks, stalls for about a second and then says raise and cuts out the remaining chips in his hand which are a chip or two short of a min raise. before i can call string bet the dealer has called the floor over and his ruling is that it IS a legal raise and the player is bound to the minimum raise. now, i say it was a string raise as he had already started cutting his checks and this is a move that can clearly be used to shoot angles (he wasnt angleshooting, but still bad form). what do you guys think, string or no?
Psand		#1	[-]
Member Posts: 1012 (05/04/08 04:03) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In my room this would be a legal raise and as the floor ruled the player would be bound to make the minimum raise. Our rule is that your action is not complete until you bring your hand back, so merely cutting out the chips while keeping your hand out in the betting area you still have the right to continue your action. Once he said raise while his hand was still out there he became obligated to raise, so the fact that he was short the raise amount doesn't matter. I understand that in other rooms this might be called a string raise, its just going to depend on the house rules.
king5clubs		#2	[-]
Member Posts: 24 (05/04/08 10:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	my issue here isnt the shortage of required chips, but the cutting out the call - pausing - and then saying raise. its opening the door for angleshooting.
Psand		#3	[-]
Member Posts: 1012 (05/04/08 08:32) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I understand your thinking but to me there is no angle. If the players no that the action isn't complete until he brings back his hand then there is no angle to be shot. Bottom line is that different rooms have different rules on this.
king5clubs		#4	[-]
Member Posts: 24 (05/04/08 11:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	how can you say theres no angle here? he's making a calling motion, then pausing. its incredibly easy to use a move like this and get a reaction from a player.
Psand		#5	[-]
Member Posts: 1012 (05/05/08 05:19) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've never really bought into the the whole its an angle to look for a reaction from other players while you bet thing. The real problem with a string bet is not that i might see a reaction in a player as I bet, but that in a true string bet I can make my opponent think I have finished acting and then he starts to act I then continue my action. So if the rule is that my action isn't finished until I bring back my hand, players have no reason to believe my action is over as long as my hand is out there, therefoire no angle since next player has any reason to start acting. But I agree with you that if the rule in that house is that a pause ends your action then what you described could be an angle in that you may caise the next player to act. personally as a dealer I prefer the rule about a hand coming back in NL because how long a pause constitutes to long a pause is a judgment call, whereas bringing back your hand is a much more clear cut cutoff point, In Limit play I prefer a forward motion rule (if you move forward enough to call you have called, if you move forward enough to raise you have raised).
seanof30306		#6	[-]
Member Posts: 167 (05/08/08 02:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	king5clubs wrote: how can you say theres no angle here? he's making a calling motion, then pausing. its incredibly easy to use a move like this and get a reaction from a player. As long as his hand was still out there, this move would be legal in my room, and in most of the rooms I've played in. My personal feelings are whatever chips you bring past the line are your bet. Even if that rule had been in place, however, he would still have made the minimum raise in this situation, as he brought more than half a raise past the line.
king5clubs		#7	[-]
Member Posts: 24 (05/08/08 08:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	seanof30306 wrote: king5clubs wrote: how can you say theres no angle here? he's making a calling motion, then pausing. its incredibly easy to use a move like this and get a reaction from a player. As long as his hand was still out there, this move would be legal in my room, and in most of the rooms I've played in. My personal feelings are whatever chips you bring past the line are your bet. Even if that rule had been in place, however, he would still have made the minimum raise in this situation, as he brought more than half a raise past the line. there is no half bet rule in no limit.
Murph4qs	Half Bet Rule in NL	#8	[-]
Member Posts: 58 (05/08/08 10:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A growing number of rooms in Las Vegas DO have a half bet rule in NL. In fact, I was involved in a situation on Tuesday where a player bet $15. Another player brought out a 5 red chips and sat them down. I tossed two of the chips back to her and said call because to my knowledge we didn't have a half bet rule (I've worked there 4.5 years). She said she wanted to raise. The woman had a sweater who spoke up and said it was a raise. I told her we didn't have a half bet rule and it was a call. She/We called the floor. The ruling was that it was a raise to $30. As it turns out we, indeed, now have a half bet rule in NL. It's amazing to me that we changed a long standing rule in our room WITHOUT a memo or any sort of communication to the DEALERS. Sigh. It's not like we needed that information, right?
seanof30306		#9	[-]
Member Posts: 167 (05/08/08 01:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	king5clubs wrote: seanof30306 wrote: king5clubs wrote: how can you say theres no angle here? he's making a calling motion, then pausing. its incredibly easy to use a move like this and get a reaction from a player. As long as his hand was still out there, this move would be legal in my room, and in most of the rooms I've played in. My personal feelings are whatever chips you bring past the line are your bet. Even if that rule had been in place, however, he would still have made the minimum raise in this situation, as he brought more than half a raise past the line. there is no half bet rule in no limit. If you bring out more than half of a minimum raise, you have made the minimum raise. You cannot raise more, you cannot just call. I've never dealt or played in a room where that was not the rule.
Psand		#10	[-]
Member Posts: 1012 (05/08/08 02:34) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	king5clubs wrote: seanof30306 wrote: king5clubs wrote: how can you say theres no angle here? he's making a calling motion, then pausing. its incredibly easy to use a move like this and get a reaction from a player. As long as his hand was still out there, this move would be legal in my room, and in most of the rooms I've played in. My personal feelings are whatever chips you bring past the line are your bet. Even if that rule had been in place, however, he would still have made the minimum raise in this situation, as he brought more than half a raise past the line. there is no half bet rule in no limit. No half bet rule? Here is one from the TDA: If a player puts in a raise of 50% or more of the previous bet but less than the minimum raise, he or she will be required to make a full raise. The raise will be exactly the minimum raise allowed Here is From Robert's Rules Of Poker Putting a full bet plus a half-bet or more into the pot is considered to be the same as announcing a raise , and the raise must be completed. (This does not apply in the use of a single chip of greater value.) Not every room may use these rules, but they do exist and are common.
Psand		#11	[-]
Member Posts: 1012 (05/08/08 02:39) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Murph4qs wrote: A growing number of rooms in Las Vegas DO have a half bet rule in NL. In fact, I was involved in a situation on Tuesday where a player bet $15. Another player brought out a 5 red chips and sat them down. I tossed two of the chips back to her and said call because to my knowledge we didn't have a half bet rule (I've worked there 4.5 years). She said she wanted to raise. The woman had a sweater who spoke up and said it was a raise. I told her we didn't have a half bet rule and it was a call. She/We called the floor. The ruling was that it was a raise to $30. As it turns out we, indeed, now have a half bet rule in NL. It's amazing to me that we changed a long standing rule in our room WITHOUT a memo or any sort of communication to the DEALERS. Sigh. It's not like we needed that information, right? Murph, I misunderstood you when you told me this. As far as I know this is and has been the rule in our room the whole time I have been there. I thought you were talking about the rule about when an all-in reopens the raising.

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