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ziggy |
i do understand you geff | ||||||||
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i only wish gmoney would put his hgh intelligence into a viable concept or one that is at stake here. geff, you are right on with what is going on in the
now... g-money- please please, please, give your intelligence one other perception, than your own... we could and would benefit if you were into the now of
things...... god knows, you are an intelligent being.... if only we could stick with this one subject for now... we as readers and writers of this forum could
benefit from you gmoney.. .. and geff? you are one of the most logical and well informed i have read in a long time on this forum... please keep it
up... good job.
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Geffen Izlude |
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I have to give G Money some credit and some praise. He stands up for what he belives in and informs himself. My only beef with him is that he doesn't
take everyone else into considderation.
G Money, I applaud you for educating yourself with case law and taking the time to examine every sentence of said case laws to minutia. If only law makers would do the same. By far you have educated youself beyond anyone including myself in the laws and arguments brought before adjudicating athorities in this country. but please keep in mind that what your proposing is even more broken and out dated a system that the system Wynn sought to balance. I can even give Steve Wynn some credit. He took the time to recognize that a system that provides less compensation for what is meant to be a promoted position [Floor manager] provides far less compensation. Even dealers would agree on that. He also made an attempt to bring balance, but he did it with corporate greed in mind rather than ethics. He did it at the expense of the other side of the scale when the in fact the scale it self was to blame. The casino should have been the one to offer the additional compensation not the dealers. The Casino should be the one to pay them the $90k annual salary and the casino can afford it. I know this because the difference in payroll expense means the same as a corporate CFO or CEO only gets a $6 million bonus at the end of the year instead of $9 million. I Still believe that fundamentally, we all know what the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, ethical and unethical is. I also understand that greed is a human trait. we all want a bigger piece of the pie than the guy to our right and to our left. We all remember those days when we wish we didn't have to share the handful of yellow cheques we dropped into the toke box.. Unfortunately we don't think about the guy who hasn't had a single player at his game all day. We don't think about that guy who always got the table with the best georges in the casino all night long and all of the times he snuck a little lay-off into the pit bosses hand. G Money, your a smart person, but the system you propose is even more broken that the one Steve Wynn sought to correct when he made an admitted mistake in correcting.
Last Edited By: Geffen Izlude
04/22/08 07:27.
Edited 1 times.
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G money |
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If the system I am proposing is broken, then why do the majority of tip earners across America keep their own tips? Taxicab drivers, sky caps, hair cutters,
pizza delivery personel, cocktail waitresses, bellmen, garbage men, UPS deliverers, manicurists, maids, bartenders, and many others receive tips directly from
customers. If the system is broken you better get out there and let all these people know that a better system is in the works.
Let them know that they should not expect to keep what customer's freely give them. Let them know that they are greedy for not sharing their tips with others. Let them know that there are people across this country that deserve a share of their tips. The system we live in is capitalism. That means you keep what you earn. You get to be a little greedy in a capitalistic society because those who support such a system know that in the end everyone will benefit. Greed creates capitol which in turn creates jobs. Put them together and you have prosperity for all. Look, if anyone should be sharing their income it is the corporations, private individuals and others who are making billions. Why pick on the little guy making 50 to 100k a year? Don't tell me that a system that allows people to keep what they have freely been given doesn't work. It's the only system we have. Such a system promotes production, good service and reliability, not to mention a bit of competiveness. Competition fuels our economy. Competition increases procuction, service and reliability. It's a system that has worked quite effectively for millennias. If you want a socialistic country, then move to Cuba or somewhere else where they see no benefit in protecting the property rights of those willing to work for a living. Here is the system I am proposing.
Last Edited By: G money
04/23/08 10:54.
Edited 1 times.
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G money |
Response to Geffen Izlude | ||||||||
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You stated,
Sorry G Money I just don't want to work in a club where the highest paid person is the guy that runs the rubber band. So what you are saying is that allowing workers to keep what they have been given would lead to schedulers grafting tips from the workers in exchange for better assignments. For those of you who don't know what "grafting" is, here is the definition. graft 2 n.
You see, what Geffen Izlude is suggesting is that employees must be forced to share their tips. otherwise, those scheduling workers would extort tips out of
those workers for better table assignments.
[1:51:1915; 1919 RL p. 3392; NCL 10605](NRS A 1967, 632
Last Edited By: G money
04/23/08 11:31.
Edited 2 times.
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samiamiam |
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I hate to say it but he's right. I too get tired of all his posts saying the same shit.
But he's right. Someone mentioned that the floor / dealer relationship compares to a bartender who works directly with the with a server. The floor is your supervisor, not a peer, not a buddy (on the job) Your supervisor.- If the shit hits the fan........Where do you think you stand? |
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samiamiam |
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This entire subject stinks. From the beginning (we?) went about this all wrong. You should have never fought this as an employment fairness
issue but rather an integrity issue. The table games supervisor like myself, should have absolutely no personal interest in what dealers make
in tokes. This matter should be a State issue with serious consequences. There won't be problems at Wynn anytime soon. Too much heat. But as this policy is
adopted by other casinos and spreads like wildfire, stockholders, the State, casinos and our customers will be cheated. Most of our customers anyway.
Supervisors will take good care of the George.
___________ Quote: "The state is supposed to ensure that end, (casino table game integrity) primarily to protect the customers from the casinos, the casino staff from themselves, and their own tax coffers. Since a lawmaker's primary business with regard to casinos is to ensure that those things are achieved, they should be concentrating on the potential for abuses under the new service team structure. In short, they should be working to get tips back off of supervisors from a casino game integrity standpoint, and not an employment fairness standpoint." ___________ http://thedealerslounge.yuku.com/topic/372 The table games supervisor in a casino is a breed unlike any other. |
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Geffen Izlude |
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G money wrote: In their world, it works for them. Inside the pit it's a whole other ball game G Money. Your ideals sound good on paper, but just like communism, it
sounds good until you factor in human nature. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about all the problems that come from dealers keeping their
own. We don't live in a perfect world. You can quote every law that, on paper, seems to prevent the problems that dealers who keep their own encounter.
This whole debacle has proven that the people who are charged with enforcing those laws are just as corrupt as the guy who extorts money from a dealer in
exchange for more preferential work assignments. It's not just the supervisors who create the problem in a keep your own club either. Dealers themselves
will practically steal from the player and buy off the box man or floor supervisor to turn a blind eye. Thats what a real "Green Light" is G Money.
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newwynndealer |
getting tips | ||||||||
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Most tipped jobs work in way in which a tip is given at the end of a service or upon recieving something. In our business, tips are mostly given when we are giving the house's money away. A bright and cheerfull person may not recieve any tips while the grouch who's giving it away on the next table is raking it in. Thats just how it works. I've seen people take in tips from winning tip bets without saying as much the smallest thank you, just pick up and drop in the box and move on. And the people put them up on the next bet again. The people believe it brings them luck. I think the tipping of dealers is different than that of any other profession. |
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G money |
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Ideally, G Money, your not wrong, but the system you propose has proven itself to be broken in the past.
When was it proven to be broken in the past? It's working in many areas of the country. Many casinos still allow table for table. Just give me one name of a dealer who was arrested, charged and found guilty of stealing from the customer. Oh wait, the Wynn dealers who at the time were pooling tips, were accused of stealing a customer's tips. That's what started this whole ordeal. Your arguments are unsupported by Nevada History. The casinos were forcing dealers to pool their tips back in the 60's and 70's. One of the main reasons casinos began forcing dealers to pool their tips was because casino managers wanted a share of the tips. It's common knowledge that many casino managers where taking a piece of the pooled tips. To suggest that employer mandated tip pooling came about because of fears dealers would compromise the integrety of the game is ridiculous. If they caught you stealing tips back in the 60's the mob had a way of insuring that you would never do it again. Nowdays, the casino's have advanced surveillance systems and dealing procedures that would be more than sufficient to insure that dealers do not compromise the intergrety of the game due to customer tipping. Please note, however, my concerns are not for myself. I am not attempting to get table for table for myself. My efforts are simply to insure that a worker who is presented a tip will not have it taken away by his employer. I would probably choose to pool my tips with a small group of workers if this sitution were straightened out. I like vacation tokes. I like having steady and predictable income. I just don't think anyone should be forced to give up their tips without any proof to substatiating why they are being forced to give up their tips. If I agree to pool my tips with a small group of workers, you can hold me to that agreement. However, when I am forced to pool tips with who-ever my employer wants to pool my tips with, I think the line is being crossed. I can compromise. I just cannot comprimise for all the other workers who receive tips. This issue is about millions of tip earners who are currently at risk of losing a big part of their tips. Employers across this country are mandating tip pooling with one objective on their minds. They want to lower their staffing costs so they can make more money. The problem is tips aren't intended for employers. As Steve Wynns lawyers pointed out, there is already a benefit to employers for having workers who receive tips. The more in tips an employee receives, the less the business has to pay him. Employers have now figured out that if they can force their workers to share tips they can benefit even more from the tips customers are presenting. The more employees they can add into their mandated tip pool, the more workers they can pay lower wages to. I don't have a problem with tip pooling. I only have a problem with employers using tip pooling as a means to benefit themselves, even more the tips customers are presenting their workers. I feel like it's a breach of contract. While tipped employees accept low wages in exchange for an opportunity to earn tips, employers are now taking away part of those tips so they can bribe other employees into accepting lower wages. It's become an epidemic. I am sorry, but enough is enough. It's time to turn the clock back a little and restore some of those tips to their rightful owners.
Last Edited By: G money
04/23/08 03:41.
Edited 1 times.
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Geffen Izlude |
Out of touch | ||||||||
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G Money, I've made my point. The important thing as that the majority of the people who have read what you and I have written will identify with my
perspective than yours. It's apparent that your just out of touch with reality and I will no longer try to enlighten you with the reality of things.
You're simply so blinded by your motivation to keep your own that you simply don't want to see the forest for the trees. Table for table is gone.
It's gone for exactly the reasons I have stated and I have neither the time nor the patients to continue trying to convince one person that they can't
see the forest for the trees.
Dealing casino games is wholly different than cutting hair, driving a taxi or serving drinks and food. There are far more problems caused by dealers keeping their own than dealers who pool their tips amongst other dealers. You seem to be the only person who doesn't get it. |
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