Wynn tip sharing plan to protest Culinary role

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horn hi		#11	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 225 04/22/08 09:46	"I can see where they have a beef, but these laws would only be applicable absent a collective bargaining agreement. That being said, if tip sharing is part of their agreement, this law wont effect them." Not true. You can not enter into an agreement with your employer that is unlawful. Meaning, if the laws states that the employer can not mandate tip pooling, then they or a union can not make you enter into to a manditory tip pool agrement. They could however make it volintary, but not make it a term of employement. You are also looking at tipping out a bartender as a tip pool. I would think it is more of a tip-out, or lay-off. If it was a tip pool, they all the tips would go into one bucket (meaning every watress, waiter, bar tender, and bar back). Then they would split according to some preset percentage. In this case each waiter and waitress keeps their own, then gives the bartender a small percentage. The bartender doesn't give the servers anything.
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AlwaysBetRed	Culinary and Steve Wynn	#12	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 222 04/22/08 09:46	I posted this a long time ago and I'm going to say it again. The high end restaurants in the Wynn ALL require their servers to give a percentage (I think the guy told me it was 3% but I can't recall for certain) of their tips to the restaurant MANAGER. This is not included in the whatever amount they already give the bussers, the bartender, the food runner etc. This is BEFORE all of them get their cut. I asked the server how this could possibly be true since they were union (culinary) and I suggested he call his business agent from the union right away. He told me that it wouldn't do them any good because the union knew about it and had agreed that it was fine for Wynn to require this. Do you see the pattern? The servers in the UNION were the guinea pigs, then they went after the dealers. You wonder why culinary chose sides with Steve Wynn, this is why.
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G money		#13	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 944 04/22/08 10:00	Quote, I'm well aware of how food service personal split their tips. But a waiter sharing with a busboy, and a cocktail waitress sharing with a bartender is sort of similar to a crap dealer sharing tips with a blackjack dealer or the guy dealing Pai Gow sharing with the girl dealing Bacccarat. How are they similar? A busboy might actually be helping the waiter to earn more tips. A busboy might not be in a position to receive tips on his own. Likewise a bartender who is receiving tips from a cocktail waitress might actually be aiding the waitress in earning more tips by providing faster service. How can you say that waiters sharing their tips with busboys and cocktail waitresses sharing their tips with bartenders is sort of similar to crap dealers sharing their tips with a blackjack dealers. A crap dealer and a blackjack dealer are not relying on one another to serve a common guest. Both the crap dealer and the blackjack dealer are in a position where they can both earn tips from the customers they are serving. My point is, there is a reason waiters might actually choose, for themselves, to share tips with busboys. There is reason cocktail waitresses might actually choose to share their tip with the barteneder who is making their drinks. In both scenarios the waiter, like the waitress may depend on the services of others, such as bartenders and busboys to increase their service which subsequently might also lead to increased tip income. Blackjack dealers and crap dealers, on the other hand, are not serving the same customer. A blackjack dealer and a crap dealer are in a position where both have an equal chance of receiving tips. The crap dealer is in no way relient on the blackjack dealer. The Pai gow dealer is in no way relient on the baccarat dealer. They are being forced to share tips with absolutely no logical reasoning for doing so. Last Edited By: G money 04/22/08 10:02. Edited 1 time.
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Geffen Izlude		#14	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1531 04/22/08 10:50 Mod	G Money Wrote: if the laws states that the employer can not mandate tip pooling, then they or a union can not make you enter into to a manditory tip pool agrement. If the union members agree to share their tips it wouldn't be employer mandated. The union is not the employer. If it's the union members WISH to share their tips with someone, what's to stop them? G Money, where you keep going wrong here is that you think that no one may share tips willing or otherwise. You seem to want to FORCE people to keep their tips. There are legitimate reasons for tip sharing. If the employee choses to share tips it becomes their choice. No law should prevent voluntary tip sharing, but every law should prevent forced tip sharing. If a bartender and a cocktail server agree to share tips so be it. same goes for dealers. Also, had the (Wynn) dealers been asked if they would be willing to add the new job description (Team Leaders) into the tip pool we wouldn't have this situation. They may have been willing to come to an agreement with Wynn on how much and who is eligible to participate. The issue here is CHOICE, something the Wynn dealers don't have. Quitting your job is their only choice and that's unreasonable. G money, You'll be singing a whole different tune when you stand dead on a $100 craps game or $500 21 table all night and you starve. Last Edited By: Geffen Izlude 04/22/08 10:54. Edited 1 time.
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newwynndealer	thank you g money	#15	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 46 04/22/08 10:59	You are absolutely correct when you debunk that argument. Those jobs are not similar at all. How is a bartender in a service bar that never even see's a customer anything like two dealers out on the floor interacting with the public. If anything, that relationship is more like a team lead providing the rescources for the dealer in the same way the bartender provides the drinks for the waitress. Its arguments llike that, that are gonna win the case for Wynn!!! And leadership like that of Wynnaccount and his/her cohorts that are gonna drive this ship right into the ground. They have been suppressng the ideas of the new leadership for too long. Step aside and let someone else who has better ideas lead. We need Change and we need it Now!!!(before we continue to make more advisaries!!)
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G money		#16	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 944 04/22/08 11:28	I have no problem with anyone voluntarily sharing tips with other workers. I have no problem with anyone voluntarily entering into a legally binding agreement where the agreement will require continued participation for a defined time period. I do, however, have a big problem with people thinking it's OK to force people into an agreement where there is absolutely no defining of how much money will be taken from them, where there is absolutely no defining of who they will be required to share with and where there is absolutely no defining of how long the agreement will be in effect and what options will exist for the severence of such an agreement. I was singing the same tune when I was working at a casino where I made only $8 a day in tips. I will be singing the same tune for the rest of my life. Tips should be considered the property of the person to whom they are presented. I am not alone in this belief. Many states understand what I am saying and understand why I am saying it. It's not about me. It's about liberty and justice for all. Last Edited By: G money 04/22/08 11:32. Edited 3 times.
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Geffen Izlude		#17	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1531 04/22/08 01:15 Mod	But you continue to say that a union cant force someone to share their tips. The problem with your logic is that the union is the employees. It's their collective agreement. The union reps present their request to the employer based on what the overall majority wants. If the overall majority wanted to keep their own, they will request that concession from the employer. Chances are great that while there will be some who want to go for their own, an overwhelming majority would prefer a tip pool. One thing many people don't realize about going for your own, some people will buy preferential treatment from the people who have the authority to assign them with games that earn tips while those who aren't a favorite of the powers that be will get the shaft. I've been told by those who have been there that a box man getting his fifth share of a dice crews tokes for the night will turn a blind eye while the dealers practically steal from the players. I wouldn't want to work in that environment. The guy who gives the person running the rubber band the biggest cut of his tokes will always get the best games, while the dealers who don't get stuck on a dead game. Again, I don't want to work in that environment. In a perfect world, going for your own sounds good, but all the other BS that goes along with it just isn't worth it to me. G Money, the bottom line is this, Dealers can have a fair and equitable tip sharing agreement. I know how badly you want to keep your own, and in a perfect world it would work. But we don't live in a perfect world. I'm not advocating the moves that Wynn made, but I'm not going to support your rhetoric either. In my eyes, the collection and distribution of tokes should rest solely with elected members of a toke committee who represent the majority wishes on the dealers they represent. The casino should have no oversight in any matter other than reporting toke income to the IRS. If that where the foundation of the law, you may very well see many joints become table for table joints again, but the first battle that needs to be fought is to get the cookie jar out of the house safe and back into the toke counting room.
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ziggy	gef	#18	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 170 04/22/08 01:40	amen gef!!!!!!
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G money		#19	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 944 04/22/08 02:05	Workers can pay for better jobs like when a Wynn executive was caught taking money for guaranteeing workers a job a Wynns. The argument that workers can pay off people to get a better table is no different than the argument that workers can pay off people to get a better job. Did all the dealers working at the better jobs in Vegas pay off someone to get the job? The point I am making is, while you state that you don't want to work in that environment, you are working in that environment. We live in that environment. There is unfairness everywhere you look. Look at Hollywood. You don't think there is preferential treatment going on in Hollywood. Do you not think there is preferential treatment going on in upper managment positions. My argument is, if your not going to get rid of all preferential treatment, then at least let us all play by the same rules. Preferential treatment for some, while no preferential treatment for others doesn't cut it. I can accept either way. I just can't accept preferential treatment being OK for some, while it isn't OK for others. It should be one way for all or the other way for all.
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Geffen Izlude		#20	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1531 04/22/08 03:07 Mod	Sorry G Money I just don't want to work in a club where the highest paid person is the guy that runs the rubber band, and I don't think many others do either. So as long as your in the minority, toke pools are here to stay. If you really think about the number of people who press the [-] button on every one of your posts, you would realize that your in the minority. What you keep proposing over and over is something that will benefit you and will more than likely hurt more people than are being hurt at present, absent the situation at Wynn Las Vegas. Your logic is based on "Me First" and everyone else be damned as long as you get your way. Well, your way will cause more problems than it solves. Your way doesn't help the poor schmuck standing at a dead table in the Palace Court waiting all night for a high roller who decided to play across the street. Your way doesn't help the girl who gets stuck on a table full of stiffs because she wasn't willing to blow the guy controlling the rubber band. Your way doesn't help the guy who wont get hired because he doesn't have $10k to pay off the casino manager for a gig. Your way doesn't help the dice crew that will starve because the casino wont let them have a green light anymore. Do you understand where I'm going with this G Money?
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Wynn tip sharing plan to protest Culinary role

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