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JaRubin |
Was I wrong in what I did? |
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So, a couple of weeks ago I was playing 1-2 NL, and woke up with K-K under the button, and I noticed that everyone before was on the verge of folding, and I
wanted to entice someone to bet before me so i picked up my cards off the table, and had them between my fingers like I was getting ready to fold as soon as it
came to me. As soon as I did this the player on my immediate right bet as he saw me do this, so I re-raised. Afterwards the player complained to the dealer and
the floor that I was angle shooting. I see nothing wrong with what I did as I all I did was give off a fake tell. In my opinion he was stupid enough to fall
it. Were my actions wrong or unethical?
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Psand |
#1 | |||
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You didn't do anything unethical, the player who acts before you is not entitle dto know what you are going to do. If he wants to try to guess what you
will do based upon your mannerisms then he is free to guess, but you have no obligation to make it easy for him. In fact i would prefer that players
occasionally do what you do so as to negate the unfair advantage a player may get from having players who insist on doing this everytime they are going to
fold.
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Geffen Izlude |
#2 | |||
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nothing wrong with what you did. You got a good hand and wanted to get something out of it without having to wait for another chance. Just out of curiosity,
did the guy call your reraise? Could he not see that you where playing him as soon as you re raised and let you take down the pot? If he didn't he has no
one to blame but himself for not seeing what you where doing and mucking out of a bad situation. Manipulation is part of poker. If your not trying to
manipulate what other players at the table think they know about your cards, then your not playing poker, you're just playing cards.
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VitaiSlade |
#3 | |||
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If I was the dealer at that table, I would have probably stared at him for a minute and then laughed in his face. Okay, I wouldn't have done that, but I
would have loved to. I just made a post in the last topic 'out-of-turn action' about this being a mental game as well as a skill-involved one. If this
moron is going to try and take advantage of you because he knows you are on the verge of folding, I'd say you have every right to throw it right back in
his face. It was not only correct and completely fair what you were doing, but I'm glad you stuck it to the whining brat. He's going to try and take
advantage of you and then complain when he gets lured in and taken advantage of instead? Stick it to the hypocrit. I say congrats on your play. That's what
the game is about.
EDIT: Also, that was not an angle shot, to the best of my knowledge. It is a common tell that he interpreted without knowing that you were purposely trying to lure him out. In the 'book of tells' it gives tons of examples of different mannarisms and the percentage that the tell is correct. It also mentions that good players know these tells backwards and forwards and will even purposely make some of them as to throw off other players to what they were holding. In my opinion, you pulled it off and I think you are a better poker player for it. If this guy is going to complain about getting lured out, maybe he shouldn't be trying to raise and bluff with a crappy hand, thinking you will fold. That's his fault for being lured out.
Last Edited By: VitaiSlade 06/16/08 10:28.
Edited 1 time.
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seanof30306 |
#4 | |||
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What you did was an angle shot, and there's nothing in the world wrong with it.
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VitaiSlade |
#5 | |||
seanof30306 wrote: Amen to that.
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GeeJoon |
#6 | |||
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What a dufus.
Next time that guy check raises me i'd ask "Can he do that? By checking he's implying that he doesn't have a hand, now he's raising???" What you did was perfectly legal. I've seen it done hundreds of different ways. All you are doing is using a tell in reverse. It's as legal as having a tell. If you want to pick your nose every time you have the nuts you have the right to. TJ Cloutier said when he was first learning someone told him he had a tell, and apparently everyone knew about it, because he started using it in reverse, and got great results. I do the same thing online, when i'm heads up and flop the nuts, I will click the "auto check" button, so if the guy before me checks, i check almost simulatneously, therefore the people behind me think i checked the "check/fold" button and think the waters are safe. I think it's really funny he thinks that's against the rules, and hats off to you, you are thinking on the third level (i know that he watches for tells, so i'm going to do this...i.e. i know that he knows) |
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Psand |
#7 | |||
when i'm heads up and flop the nuts, I will click the "auto check" button, so if the guy before me checks, i check almost simulatneously, therefore the people behind me think i checked the "check/fold" button and think the waters are safe. Ok. You got me. 1st if you are heads up and there is someone ahead of you how is there also someone behind you to trick? 2nd why do they think you clicked check/fold and not just auto check? |
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GeeJoon |
#8 | |||
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Yes, I worded that one wrong...sorry about that. It still works if you are heads up though, they will almost always come out firing on the next street if you
put the auto check on.
Almost always when the two checks come almost instantaeously, they know you didn't respond, that you just had the check button clicked. They almost always assume you have nothing. |
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