Player rating and published craps rolls

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blizzard19	Player rating and published craps rolls		Lead	[-]
Posts: 11 08/07/07 09:50	I'm ex-dealer (BJ, Roulette, etc.etc) that is now a 'semi' professional craps player that has a question about player ratings. Do the current software systems have a flag to tag someone as a 'comp monger'? Meaning, is there a way for the floor to either put in, or to tell from a previous supervisor, that a player has been playing for comps? I do not play for comps, but I guess that my style of play makes it seem as if I do. My average bet is between $250-$400 on craps (only, no other game or machine), and I seem to have hit a wall with almost every casino when it comes to getting rooms and food comped. You'd think at that average bet, I would be given a suite and food anywhere, but....no. Also, does anyone have a link to online craps (actual) rolls. Not the Zumma book that you have to pay for, I mean a list, or lists, of rolls that someone wrote down from live play and published on the net. Thanks! blizzard19
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HotRodDealerMan	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#1	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 96 08/08/07 04:21	At our boat here in Mushroomland, I mean Shreveport, we use Bally's eTable to track players. No flags, but we are able to put comments/notification info if something is up. I've never seen a comment about playing for comps. My only problem with the system is the formula for adding comp worth. For lack of a better description, it's retarded. A couple of weeks ago, I had a player on craps lose $500 in about 15 minutes. Average bet was $135 (give or take, my brain hurts). I don't remember how much comp worth he had available, but after losing $500, it only went up 25 cents. I used to be able to give a comp (for food at least) based on 10% of your loss. These days, if you're already in the negative (as 98% of our guests are because of that rule), I have to call the MOD to get approval. $#@!%#%$#@ The company doesn't want to give comps, they just want you to lose. Please sir, one hand, like at home, ok?
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PiercedMoonyMom	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#2	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 153 08/09/07 06:49	I'm not aware of such a system at our casino, but as HotRod said, comments can be left. About the rolls-what good would a list of numbers rolled do for you? Not being snarky, really. The dice are going to roll what they're going to roll but I'm just wondering if there's anything to learn from what they do. Like a breath of midnight air. Like a lighthouse, like a prayer. Like the flicker and the flare, the sky reveals. Like a walk along the shore that you've walked a thousand times before. Like the ocean's roar. Love heals. ~Jonathan Larson
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WiseGuy	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 109 08/09/07 02:21	As far as I know, most places do allow comments to be entered about a player, whether regarding style of play, personality or body odor. As for published craps rolls, I don't know exactly what you're looking for, like the board on a roulette or mini-bacc table? Last night, we had this guy roll 3, 7, 8 (easy point), 5, 8(winner easy), 5 (point), seven out. I don't remember the exact dice combinations, but the 3 rolled ace-deuce.
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Pebbs	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 08/10/07 12:09	*Quote:* As for published craps rolls, I don't know exactly what you're looking for, like the board on a roulette or mini-bacc table? Don't say that too loud, or tomorrow you'll go in and a huge neon sign will be screaming that exact thing. I could see it happen. People are suckered into that kind of crap. Or has this already been done? I have seen the tables with the counter in the middle. I think when I was at Binions it was something like 15 rolls and you get some free thing. I watched for awhile, seemed to always seven out on 13 rolls. Ha.
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blizzard19	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 10/04/07 05:47	Sorry for the belatedness of this response. Sorry for bumping this post back up. And thanks to those who responded!!! I've been in Vegas for a few months and I literally forgot to check this message. Nice one Wiseguy. The Comp System stinks everywhere now. Winsdor Casino used to be the best around before being taken over by Harrahs. Now they are part of the worst. I think that I am identified as an 'advantage' player, and if not, I never get enough 'time' in at a table, like one of the posts said. I am winning 70% of the time, but in less than an hour each time at the table. Losses occur faster than that, and the result is no comp 'time'. I have strict win limits (unlike the vast majority of players) and losses. I can NEVER leave with a $10,000 win at once, but I'll never leave with a $10,000 loss :-) As far as published rolls, I was looking for a list in a computer format, which Zumma has finally done with its' books since I posted, and I now have. It's a PDF, but it still serves my purpose. Yes, I know that the dice have no memory and that no roll influences the next. I also know that the statistics bear themselves out over a loooong period of time. IF you can successfully test over a looong period, (30,000 rolls) and consistently win, that should be enough, right? In theory anyway. As I mentioned before, I was a dealer so I know what happens, and can happen, in reality (but I am prepared for it). Thanks again or the responses. One story: I had tipped a crew about $100 during a LOSING craps session at Falsview Casino and asked the box for a buffet comp. I had just got there and was down $1200 in 45 mins and he knew it but still looked at me and said "you do not have enough table time in". I was booked in for a room so they didn't think I had enough play for the food yet. I was sooooo pissed that I left. biffle
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parlayboy	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#6	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 33 10/04/07 10:01	blizzard, Not asking you to give away your "secret", but do you really claim that you are playing at an advantage in casino craps and consistently winning more than you are losing? I find that a dubious claim given the constant house edge/vig inherent in casino craps. Or are you playing with a system that has worked so far and want trials to make sure it is not a mirage? I don't know what magic number is big enough to approximate long term, but this sounds like you are playing with fire to me. As an ex-dealer, I'd think you'd have learned that no system can beat the game. I have a "casual" friend, more of a friend of a friend, who is a pro gambler ( made a fortune at sports and does well at both live and online poker ) who will play craps on occasion. He uses a method that is a bit unethical, IMO, but does work for him. He essentially varies his line bets from $65 to $95 randomly and haphazzardly at a jammed-up table to INDUCE an occasional dealer "odds payoff" mistake in his favor ( he stays VERY on top of each bet ). He says just one overpay an hour eliminates the house edge. I have played with him maybe 10 hours and he does get maybe 1-2 mistakes an hour in LV - from what I observed and he tells me. He said it works best at "local type" Indian casinos where the dealers are not as sharp or as experienced - lots of "mistake bonuses". He also plays "advantage VP" a decent amount and counts cards at BJ some as well and gets everything comped since he is in the hi limit area most of the time. He limits his BJ play to very short sessions so as not to get detected and booted - mostly plays it just with friends for a distraction. That is the only method, unethical as it may be, that I have heard of that I buy - and have seen it work! While it isn't technically cheating - it is not very kosher IMO and I'd never do such a thing - as a straight-up player. JMHO
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blizzard19	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 10/04/07 02:34	parlayboy, in a huge nutshell, yes. i dealt 10 years ago, been playing and practicing (have my own BJ and Craps tables) for 5 years. many things have led me to where i am, but the biggest thing is my love of statistics and math. i am nowhere near the level of some of you out there, but i know the odds of the game and the inherent house advantage (and that it cannot be beat). i have, however, been able to take advantage, as mike shackelford had once said, to 'take advantage of short term deviations to the statistical norms'. along with money management and discipline, i have not failed in three years(in what i do) can i? yes. will i? yes, someday. fortunately, if i lose my trip bankroll, i have won it many times over already, and can just take the original stake out of the bank and start over and use that to multiply it again (ten times over again before losing it once?). maybe i'll lose it the first time, i don't know, it could happen. i've run it against 50,000 rolls and 1000 sessions, more than enough for anyone to argue 'but you don't play long enough to see enough rolls...'. well, yes, i do. i know people do not believe me and that's ok. i do lose sessions and that's part of it and i count on it (hopefully not too many in a row!!). maybe it'll crash someday, but 5 years total has been a good run. the comps system has really took a dive the last year which is why i posted. thanks.
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PiercedMoonyMom	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#8	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 153 10/05/07 06:13	I understand now. When you said that you have a max win as well as a max loss guideline it all made sense. Thanks. Like a breath of midnight air. Like a lighthouse, like a prayer. Like the flicker and the flare, the sky reveals. Like a walk along the shore that you've walked a thousand times before. Like the ocean's roar. Love heals. ~Jonathan Larson
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blizzard19	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 10/05/07 02:22	Pierced, I'm not sure if that was a sarcastic comment or not, lol. The VAST majority of players are missing one component or another to have a winning sessoin at a casino (not to be confused with winning over a lifetime). They need to be properly funded for their 'system; they need to have money management; and they need to have discipline (sticking to a system and money both fall here). I have logged countless hours at the tables in the US, Canada, and the Bahamas the last three years and I can tell you two things about other players that you dealers (craps dealers, I never dealt craps in a casino, but at local events, my casino XP is in BJ, Roulette, etc.) already know: First - Almost 100% know how much they are willng to LOSE when they walk to the table, but less than 5% (my estimation) know how much they are willing to WIN, and stop once they reach it. Second - I watch and watch and watch other players do what I call "press me out of the game". You know the deal, Place Inside or Across, hit, take $2 and full press. Do it again. Do it again. 7. Repeat. Broke. Yes, there is ONE huge roll every 200, and if you win that $5000, maybe it will pay part of your $25,000 back. I also never answered one question, sorry: No, I do not count on or take advantage of mistakes. I point them out and give them back. I also make sure I get paid correctly too. Thanks again for the responses, I am leaving for Vegas (from Ohio) again Monday (the 8th) maybe I'll run across someone somewhere, but who will know... :-) blizzard19 (biffle)
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PiercedMoonyMom	Re: Player rating and published craps rolls	#10	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 153 10/06/07 08:36	I meant that sincerely. I've come across a lot of people that use systems and just don't know when to quit. Honestly, their systems work in the short-term but they ruin it by not stopping while they're ahead, at least not significantly ahead. I also understand what you mean about applying a system over the long term to documented rolls to see if it's valid. Like a breath of midnight air. Like a lighthouse, like a prayer. Like the flicker and the flare, the sky reveals. Like a walk along the shore that you've walked a thousand times before. Like the ocean's roar. Love heals. ~Jonathan Larson
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Player rating and published craps rolls

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